{"id":17796,"date":"2026-03-06T15:46:02","date_gmt":"2026-03-06T20:46:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/?post_type=article&#038;p=17796"},"modified":"2026-03-11T10:29:12","modified_gmt":"2026-03-11T15:29:12","slug":"beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2","status":"publish","type":"article","link":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<section class=\"hero content-position-full\" id=\"6a06930d322a9\" style=\"background:var(--wp--custom--color--nab-blue-dark);\">\n\n<header class=\"header\">\n\t<div class=\"header-inner\">\n\n\t\t<div class=\"header-columns\">\n\n\t\t\t<div class=\"header-image\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/\" title=\"NAB Show\" rel=\"home\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/nabshow-logo.webp\" alt=\"NAB Show\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h1 class=\"header-title\">NAB Show<\/h1>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<div class=\"shape-holder\">\n\t\t\t\t<svg id=\"header-n-shape\" class=\"header-n-shape\" width=\"1448\" height=\"1300\" viewBox=\"0 0 1448 1300\" fill=\"none\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<path\n\t\t\t\t\td=\"M118.956 1299H519.683C709.682 1299 837.507 1226.46 930.776 1057.16L1424.79 165.836C1476.62 72.5612 1435.15 0 1328.06 0H923.871C733.873 0 599.144 76.0046 509.318 241.841L22.2267 1133.18C-29.5991 1226.46 11.8616 1299.02 118.956 1299.02\"\n\t\t\t\t\tfill=\"#AD1F82\" \/>\n\t\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"shape-shield\"><\/div>\n\n\t\t\t<div class=\"header-navs\">\n\n\t\t\t\t<nav class=\"header-utility\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<ul id=\"menu-header\" class=\"header-menu\"><li id=\"menu-item-241\" class=\"nab-purple-1 menu-item menu-item-type-custom menu-item-object-custom menu-item-241\"><a>NAB SHOW<\/a><\/li>\n<li id=\"menu-item-242\" class=\"nab-purple-2 menu-item menu-item-type-custom menu-item-object-custom menu-item-242\"><a>NAB SHOW NEW YORK<\/a><\/li>\n<li id=\"menu-item-243\" class=\"nab-purple-3 menu-item menu-item-type-custom menu-item-object-custom menu-item-243\"><a>TRENDS AND TOPICS<\/a><\/li>\n<li id=\"menu-item-11972\" class=\"nab-purple-4 menu-item menu-item-type-custom menu-item-object-custom menu-item-11972\"><a>EXHIBIT\/SPONSOR<\/a><\/li>\n<li id=\"menu-item-11971\" class=\"nab-purple-5 menu-item menu-item-type-custom menu-item-object-custom menu-item-11971\"><a>RESOURCES<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<\/nav>\n\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"ever-present-buttons\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<!-- <a href=\"https:\/\/registration.experientevent.com\/ShowNAB261\/\" target=\"_blank\">REGISTER NOW<\/a> -->\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/naborg.my.site.com\/NAB\/interested-in-exhibiting\" target=\"_blank\">APPLY TO EXHIBIT<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<nav class=\"header-controls\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"menu\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<form role=\"search\" method=\"get\" id=\"searchform\" class=\"searchform\" action=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/\">\n\n\t\t\t<label class=\"screen-reader-text\" for=\"s\">Search for:<\/label>\n\n\t\t\t<div class=\"searchform-input-container\">\n\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"text\"\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"searchform-input\"\n\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"\"\n\t\t\t\t\tname=\"s\"\n\t\t\t\t\tid=\"s\"\n\t\t\t\t\tplaceholder=\"Search NABSHOW\"\n\t\t\t\t\/>\n\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"searchform-submit-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<button type=\"submit\" class=\"searchform-submit\" id=\"searchsubmit\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<i class=\"fas fa-search\"><\/i>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/button>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"searchform-meta\">\n\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"searchform-result-count\">\n\t\t\t\t\t0 results\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"searchform-meta-buttons\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<button type=\"button\" class=\"searchform-reset\">Reset Filters<\/button> |\n\t\t\t\t\t<button type=\"button\" class=\"searchform-clear\">Clear Search<\/button>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<fieldset class=\"searchform-show-types\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<legend>Show<\/legend>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-show-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_show_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"las-vegas\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Las Vegas <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"show-type\" data-term-id=\"63\">(394)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-show-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_show_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"new-york\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">New York <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"show-type\" data-term-id=\"65\">(70)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/fieldset>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<fieldset class=\"searchform-years\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<legend>Year<\/legend>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-year-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_year[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"2025\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">2025 <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"show-year\" data-term-id=\"64\">(129)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-year-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_year[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"2026\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">2026 <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"show-year\" data-term-id=\"66\">(316)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-year-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_year[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"2027\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">2027 <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"show-year\" data-term-id=\"73\">(2)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/fieldset>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<fieldset class=\"searchform-types\">\n\t\t\t\t<legend>Type<\/legend>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"article\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Article <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-post-type=\"article\">(83)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"page\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Page <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-post-type=\"page\">(127)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"press-release\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Press Release <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-post-type=\"press-release\">(47)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"session\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Session <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-post-type=\"session\">(619)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"speaker\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Speaker <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-post-type=\"speaker\">(1015)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-type-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_type[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"video\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Video <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-post-type=\"video\">(262)<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/fieldset>\n\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<fieldset class=\"searchform-categories\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<legend>Category<\/legend>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"advertising-and-marketing\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Advertising and Marketing <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"150\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>25<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"artificial-intelligence\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Artificial Intelligence <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"58\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>127<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"audience-measurement\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Audience Measurement <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"151\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>27<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"audio-podcasting-radio\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Audio | Podcasting | Radio <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"149\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>8<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"business-strategy-and-research\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Business Strategy and Research <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"154\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>35<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"changing-frequencies\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Changing Frequencies <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"70\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>5<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"cloud-virtualization\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Cloud Virtualization <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"59\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>46<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"corporate-and-enterprise-media\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Corporate and Enterprise Media <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"153\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>28<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"creator-economy\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Creator Economy <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"60\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>65<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"cybersecurity\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Cybersecurity <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"157\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>2<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"data-and-analytics\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Data and Analytics <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"152\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>25<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"distribution-and-ip-based-workflows\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Distribution and IP-Based Workflows <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"148\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>35<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"executive-viewpoint\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Executive Viewpoint <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"125\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>8<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"exhibitor-spotlight\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Exhibitor Spotlight <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"57\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>10<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"film-and-cinema\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Film and Cinema <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"156\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>14<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"immersive-tech-ar-vr-xr\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Immersive Tech (AR\/VR\/XR) <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"159\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>7<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"journalism-news-tv\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Journalism | News | TV <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"155\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>8<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"main-stage\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Main Stage <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"129\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>11<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"nextgen-tv-atsc-3-0\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">NextGen TV \/ ATSC 3.0 <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"158\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>3<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"production-and-post\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Production and Post <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"147\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>66<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"resources\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Resources <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"53\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>28<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"sports\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Sports <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"61\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>64<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"streaming\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Streaming <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"62\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>46<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"thought-leadership\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Thought Leadership <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"127\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>1<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"trends-topics\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Trends and Topics <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"33\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>72<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"uncategorized\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Uncategorized <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"1\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>0<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<label class=\"searchform-category-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<input\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttype=\"checkbox\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tname=\"search_cat[]\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tvalue=\"webinar\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"searchform-facet-label\">Webinar <span class=\"searchform-facet-count\" data-taxonomy=\"category\" data-term-id=\"71\"><span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">(<\/span>3<span class=\"searchform-facet-count-separator\">)<\/span><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/fieldset>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t<\/form>\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"menu-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href id=\"header-search-button\" class=\"header-search-button\" tabindex=\"-1\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i class=\"fas fa-search\" tabindex=\"0\" role=\"button\"><\/i>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i class=\"fas fa-xmark hide\" tabindex=\"0\"><\/i>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/ul>\n\t\t\t\t<\/nav>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<div id=\"header-menu-button\" class=\"mobile-nav-toggle\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/header>\n\n<div class=\"small-nav-holder\">\n\n\t<div id=\"mega-menu-es\" class=\"small\">\n\t\t<ul>\n\t\t\t<li class=\"intro\"><a href=\"\/exhibit-sponsor\/las-vegas\/why-nab-show\/\">NAB SHOW<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t\t<li class=\"intro\"><a href=\"\/exhibit-sponsor\/new-york\/why-nab-show-new-york\/\">NAB SHOW NEW YORK<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<\/ul>\n\t<\/div>\n\t\n\t<div id=\"mega-menu-r\" class=\"small right\">\n\t\t<ul>\n\t\t\t<li class=\"intro\"><a href=\"\/resources\/las-vegas\/\">NAB SHOW<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t\t<li class=\"intro\"><a href=\"\/resources\/new-york\/\">NAB SHOW NEW YORK<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<\/ul>\n\t<\/div>\n\n<\/div>\n\t\n<div class=\"nav-container\"><\/div>\n\n<div id=\"mega-menu-lv\">\n\t<a class=\"featured-image-link\" href=\"\/las-vegas\/\"><div class=\"featured-image\" style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/Exhibits_featured.jpg.webp);\"><\/div><\/a>\t<ul>\n\t\t<li class=\"intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/\">NAB SHOW LAS VEGAS<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<!-- <li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"https:\/\/registration.experientevent.com\/ShowNAB261\/\" target=\"_blank\">REGISTER NOW<\/a><\/li> -->\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/photos\/\">VIEW PHOTOS<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"https:\/\/registration.experientevent.com\/ShowNAB271\/flow\/INQ\/#!\/registrant\/\/Profile\/\" target=\"_blank\">GET ON THE LIST<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/why-nab-show\/\">EXHIBIT<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<!-- <li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/video-highlights\/\">2025 VIDEO HIGHLIGHTS<\/a><\/li> -->\n\t\t<!-- <li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hotels.expobook.com\/6D10B087-61A6-4A8C-B0DA-C09343D066AC\/0?utm_source=nab&utm_campaign=2026_nab_show&utm_medium=assoc_site\" target=\"_blank\">BOOK HOTEL<\/a><\/li> -->\n\t<\/ul>\n\t<ul>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/show-floor\/\">SHOW FLOOR<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/conferences-and-workshops\/\">EDUCATION<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/sessions\/\">SESSIONS<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/featured-speakers\/\">FEATURED SPEAKERS<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<!-- <li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/las-vegas\/download-the-app\/\">DOWNLOAD THE APP<\/a><\/li> -->\n\t<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"mega-menu-ny\" class=\"\">\n\t<a class=\"featured-image-link\" href=\"\/new-york\/\"><div class=\"featured-image\" style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/01\/20241009__NAB_-NY_021.jpg);\"><\/div><\/a>\t<ul>\n\t\t<li class=\"intro\"><a href=\"\/new-york\/\">NAB SHOW NEW YORK<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"https:\/\/registration.experientevent.com\/ShowNAB268\/Flow\/INQ\/#!\/registrant\/\/Profile\/\" target=\"_blank\">GET ON THE LIST<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<!-- <li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/new-york\/registration\/\">REGISTRATION<\/a><\/li> -->\n\t\t<!-- <li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/new-york\/networking-and-events\/\">NETWORKING AND EVENTS<\/a><\/li> -->\n\t<\/ul>\n\t<ul>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/new-york\/conferences-and-workshops\/\">EDUCATION<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/new-york\/show-floor\/\">SHOW FLOOR<\/a><\/li>\n\t<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"mega-menu-tt\" class=\"\">\n\t<a class=\"featured-image-link\" href=\"\/trends-and-topics\/\"><div class=\"featured-image\" style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/trends-and-topics_feature_image.png);\"><\/div><\/a>\t<ul>\n\t\t<li class=\"intro\"><a href=\"\/trends-and-topics\/\">TRENDS &#038; TOPICS<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/trends-and-topics\/artificial-intelligence\/\">ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/trends-and-topics\/cloud-virtualization\/\">CLOUD VIRTUALIZATION<\/a><\/li>\n\t<\/ul>\n\t<ul>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/trends-and-topics\/creator-economy\/\">CREATOR ECONOMY<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li\tclass=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/trends-and-topics\/sports\/\">SPORTS<\/a><\/li>\n\t\t<li class=\"sub-intro\"><a href=\"\/trends-and-topics\/streaming\/\">STREAMING<\/a><\/li>\n\t<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<div class=\"hero-inner\">\n\t\t<div class=\"hero-content is-layout-flow\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<h1 class=\"wp-block-heading has-contrast-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-6e458d626ebd5c2a0f5b321d785ab3f6\">Changing Frequencies: The NAB Show Podcast.<\/h1>\n\n\n\t\t\t<!-- query post loop here --> \n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n\n\t<!-- <div class=\"gradient-overlay\" style=\"background: <\/\/?= $background_gradient ?>; opacity: <\/\/?= ($gradient_opacity  \/ 100) ?>; mix-blend-mode: <\/\/?= $blend_mode ?>;\"><\/div> -->\n\t\t<div class=\"hero-image-rotator\">\n\t\t\t<svg id=\"header-a-shape\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" version=\"1.1\" viewBox=\"0 0 1728 959\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<path class=\"blue-dark\" d=\"M0,0v959h384.9l276.8-506.3c6.4-11.8,12.9-23.3,19.6-34.6L451.2,0H0Z\"\/>\n\t\t\t\t\t<path class=\"orange\" d=\"M1723.8,0H451.2l230.1,418.1c32.8-55.3,69-103.9,108.7-146.1h0c138.9-147.7,321.1-217,553.6-217h384.4V0h-4.2Z\"\/>\n\t\t\t\t<\/svg>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"gradient-overlay\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"gradient-overlay-edge\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\n\t\n<\/section>\n\n<script>\n\tdocument.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', function() {\n\t\tvar wrapper = document.querySelector('.vimeo-wrapper');\n\t\tif (wrapper) {\n\t\t\tvar observer = new IntersectionObserver(function(entries) {\n\t\t\t\tif (entries[0].isIntersecting) {\n\t\t\t\t\tvar videoId = wrapper.getAttribute('data-video-id');\n\t\t\t\t\tvar iframe = document.createElement('iframe');\n\t\t\t\t\tiframe.src = \"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/\" + videoId + \"?background=1&autoplay=1&loop=1&byline=0&title=0\";\n\t\t\t\t\tiframe.frameBorder = \"0\";\n\t\t\t\t\tiframe.allow = \"autoplay; fullscreen\";\n\t\t\t\t\tiframe.allowFullscreen = true;\n\t\t\t\t\twrapper.appendChild(iframe);\n\n\t\t\t\t\tvar placeholder = wrapper.querySelector('.video-placeholder');\n\t\t\t\t\tif (placeholder) {\n\t\t\t\t\t\twrapper.removeChild(placeholder);\n\t\t\t\t\t}\n\n\t\t\t\t\tobserver.unobserve(wrapper);\n\t\t\t\t}\n\t\t\t}, {\n\t\t\t\tthreshold: 0.1\n\t\t\t});\n\t\t\tobserver.observe(wrapper);\n\t\t}\n\t});\n<\/script>\n\n<\/section>\n\n<section class=\"section no-padding\" id=\"6a06930d40313\">\n\n\t<div class=\"section-inner is-layout-flow\">\n\n\t\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"yoast-breadcrumbs\">\n <span><span>\n <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/\">Home<\/a><\/span> \/ <span>\n <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/trends-and-topics\/\">Trends and Topics<\/a><\/span> \/ <span>\n <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/trends-and-topics\/changing-frequencies\/\">Changing Frequencies<\/a><\/span> \/ <\/span>\n <span class=\"breadcrumb_last\" aria-current=\"page\"><\/span><\/span>\n <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\t<\/div>\n\n<\/section>\n\n<section class=\"section\" id=\"6a06930d47009\">\n\n\t<div class=\"section-inner is-layout-flow\">\n\n\t\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-style-step-up is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-16bd0e29 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\" style=\"margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:70%\"><h3 style=\"padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);\" class=\"wp-block-post-title\">Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2<\/h3>\n\n\n<p class=\"has-medium-font-size\">Aired on March 4, 2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group main-inner is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Changing Frequencies: Episode 2 | Beyond the Brand Deal\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/lizKJ5q-jao?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:30px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-da604d14 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"border-style:none;border-width:0px;border-top-left-radius:20px;border-top-right-radius:20px;border-bottom-left-radius:20px;border-bottom-right-radius:20px;padding-top:0;padding-right:0;padding-bottom:0;padding-left:0\">\n\n\n<h6 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Listen and Follow<\/h6>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-content-justification-left is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-4feb0dd9 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\" style=\"border-style:none;border-width:0px;border-top-left-radius:10px;border-top-right-radius:10px;border-bottom-left-radius:10px;border-bottom-right-radius:10px;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-right:0;padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-left:0\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-container-content-759e20a8\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.spreaker.com\/episode\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2--70426041\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\" noreferrer noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"350\" src=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_speaker.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17654\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_speaker.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_speaker-300x103.png 300w, https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_speaker-768x263.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full wp-container-content-759e20a8\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/lizKJ5q-jao?si=oXAVt78ujFRe2l-S\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\" noreferrer noopener\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"350\" src=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_youtube.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17655\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_youtube.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_youtube-300x103.png 300w, https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/logo_youtube-768x263.png 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:15px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-style-default is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\" style=\"padding-right:0;padding-left:0\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">About the Episode<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:30px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"is-style-step-up has-blue-dark-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-095a63aaae522b4a2dd91043c7e69ac9\" style=\"margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--medium)\">Creators aren\u2019t just influencers anymore. They\u2019re CEOs, production studios and media companies rolled into one. In this episode of &#8220;Changing Frequencies,&#8221; host Josh Miely sits down with Dylan Huey (CEO of REACH), Nicki Sun (filmmaker and founder of Nicki Sun Media) and Travis Keyes (commercial photographer and former APA president) for a candid, business-first conversation about what it really takes to build a sustainable creator enterprise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>They break down:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>When content creation becomes a real business<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>How creators underprice themselves (licensing, scope creep and trust transfer)<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>What brands misunderstand about audience value<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The difference between viral and shareable content<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>How AI is actually improving workflows \u2014 and where it creates risk<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Why the future belongs to creators who own their audience, IP and infrastructure<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>This isn\u2019t a hype conversation. It\u2019s a practical look at contracts, revenue models, recurring income, production standards and long-term positioning in a rapidly evolving media landscape. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Stay until the end of the episode for an exclusive podcast promo code that gives you a free NAB Show Floor Pass to the 2026 NAB Show in Las Vegas!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/trends-and-topics\/changing-frequencies\/\">Subscribe for more conversations<\/a> with the people shaping what\u2019s next in media, entertainment and technology.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-blue-dark-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-8d27f89a7c15a5d86e80751d0e962b8b\" id=\"ember327\"><em>New episodes every other week, leading into NAB Show in Las Vegas in April.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" style=\"margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\"\/>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Meet the Guests<\/h3>\n\n\n<section class=\"accordion collapsed\" id=\"block-dylan-huey\">\n\n\t<h5 class=\"accordion-heading\">\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-open\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-minus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-title\">\n\t\t\tDylan Huey\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/h5>\n\n\t<section id=\"block-dylan-huey-content\" class=\"accordion-content\">\n\t\t<div class=\"accordion-content-inner is-layout-flow\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-f5a44f5b wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:60%\">\n<p>Dylan Huey is a creator-entrepreneur and ecosystem builder focused on the infrastructure that supports creators as scalable media businesses. As CEO of REACH, he works at the intersection of content, monetization platforms and creator community development, helping creators connect with brands, audiences and new revenue opportunities. Huey\u2019s work centers on building systems that enable creators to operate beyond personal influence\u2014developing business models, engagement-based monetization approaches and collaborative creator networks that support long-term sustainability in the creator economy.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:40%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized has-custom-border\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"400\" src=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/dylan-huey-headshot_hortizontal.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17797\" style=\"border-top-left-radius:20px;border-top-right-radius:20px;border-bottom-left-radius:20px;border-bottom-right-radius:20px;width:auto;height:200px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/dylan-huey-headshot_hortizontal.jpg 500w, https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/dylan-huey-headshot_hortizontal-300x240.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/section>\n\n<\/section>\n\n\n<div style=\"height:15px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n<section class=\"accordion collapsed\" id=\"block-travis-w-keyes\">\n\n\t<h5 class=\"accordion-heading\">\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-open\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-minus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-title\">\n\t\t\tTravis W Keyes\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/h5>\n\n\t<section id=\"block-travis-w-keyes-content\" class=\"accordion-content\">\n\t\t<div class=\"accordion-content-inner is-layout-flow\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-f5a44f5b wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:60%\">\n<p>Travis W Keyes is a commercial photographer and filmmaker whose work spans cinematic portraiture, corporate branding and creator-led production. Operating at the intersection of creator media and commercial creative services, he collaborates with brands, organizations and public figures on visual storytelling and branded campaigns. Keyes also brings industry leadership experience through professional creative associations, giving him deep insight into licensing, usage rights and the evolving business standards shaping creator and commercial media work today.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:40%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized has-custom-border\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"400\" src=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/travis_keyes_heatshot_hortizontal.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17798\" style=\"border-top-left-radius:20px;border-top-right-radius:20px;border-bottom-left-radius:20px;border-bottom-right-radius:20px;width:auto;height:200px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/travis_keyes_heatshot_hortizontal.jpg 500w, https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/travis_keyes_heatshot_hortizontal-300x240.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/section>\n\n<\/section>\n\n\n<div style=\"height:15px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n<section class=\"accordion collapsed\" id=\"block-nicki-sun\">\n\n\t<h5 class=\"accordion-heading\">\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-open\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-minus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-title\">\n\t\t\tNicki Sun\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/h5>\n\n\t<section id=\"block-nicki-sun-content\" class=\"accordion-content\">\n\t\t<div class=\"accordion-content-inner is-layout-flow\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-f5a44f5b wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:60%\">\n<p>Nicki Sun is a host, filmmaker and founder of Nicki Sun Media, a boutique studio-style creator business specializing in branded storytelling, production and strategic partnerships. Through her company, she produces professional video content and brand collaborations for major technology and media companies while also hosting and creating original programming. Sun represents the \u201ccreator as studio\u201d model, combining on-camera work, production expertise and entrepreneurial strategy to deliver high-quality content and partnerships across multiple platforms.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:40%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized has-custom-border\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"400\" src=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/nicki-sun-headshot-hortizontal.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17799\" style=\"border-top-left-radius:20px;border-top-right-radius:20px;border-bottom-left-radius:20px;border-bottom-right-radius:20px;width:auto;height:200px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/nicki-sun-headshot-hortizontal.jpg 500w, https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/nicki-sun-headshot-hortizontal-300x240.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/section>\n\n<\/section>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" style=\"margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\"\/>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-top is-style-border-left is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:30%\">\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-da604d14 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"border-style:none;border-width:0px;border-top-left-radius:20px;border-top-right-radius:20px;border-bottom-left-radius:20px;border-bottom-right-radius:20px;padding-top:0;padding-right:0;padding-bottom:0;padding-left:0\">\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Listen Now<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:10px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/widget.spreaker.com\/player?episode_id=70109578&#038;theme=light&#038;playlist=false&#038;playlist-continuous=false&#038;chapters-image=true&#038;episode_image_position=left&#038;hide-logo=true&#038;hide-likes=false&#038;hide-comments=true&#038;hide-sharing=false&#038;hide-download=false&#038;color=0049b0%22 min-width=\"1080px\" title=\"Changing Frequencies, the New NAB Show Podcast | Episode 1\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n    <a class=\"broadstreet-zone\" href=\"https:\/\/ad.broadstreetads.com\/zone_static\/174968\/click\/0?seed=\" target=\"_blank\"> \n        <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/ad.broadstreetads.com\/zone_static\/174968\/image\/0?seed=\" style=\"max-width: 100%;\" \/> \n    <\/a>\n\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<div style=\"height:30px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">View Transcript<\/h3>\n\n\n<section class=\"accordion collapsed\" id=\"block-beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\">\n\n\t<h5 class=\"accordion-heading\">\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t<span class=\"accordion-toggle-open\"><i class=\"fas fa-fw fa-minus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<span class=\"accordion-title\">\n\t\t\tBeyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/h5>\n\n\t<section id=\"block-beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2-content\" class=\"accordion-content\">\n\t\t<div class=\"accordion-content-inner is-layout-flow\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<p><strong>JOSH MIELY, HOST:<\/strong> The media landscape doesn\u2019t stand still, nor does the business behind it. Welcome to Changing Frequencies, a podcast from NAB Show. Each episode explores how media entertainment, storytelling are evolving, from broadcasting to streaming, content creators to the cloud and sports to AI, spotlighting the people who are defining what\u2019s next.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m Josh Miely from NAB, and today we\u2019re talking about creators, not just as personalities or influencers, but as business operators. Creators today are expected to function like media companies: revenue streams, contracts, production standards, platform strategy and long-term sustainability.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today I\u2019m joined by Dylan Huey, Nicki Sun and Travis Keyes. All three of them are founding members of NAB Show\u2019s Creator Council. Dylan is CEO of REACH, a creator-focused ecosystem spanning marketing services, talent representation, ventures and studio work. He helps build an infrastructure that enables creators to operate as scalable, sustainable businesses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Nicki Sun is host, filmmaker and founder of Nicki Sun Media, a producing branded content for companies including Samsung and R\u00d8DE. She\u2019s the creator of The Nicki Sun Show, and she\u2019s a champion of professionalization and entrepreneurship in the creator economy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And Travis W Keyes is a commercial photographer and filmmaker operating at the intersection of cinematic storytelling, brand partnerships and creator-led production. Travis works in the hybrid space between independent creator and commercial creative, bringing deep experience in corporate branding, ambassador roles and industry leadership.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>His tenure as president of American Photographic Artists concluded in January of this year. Thank you to all of you for joining me today. Our time is limited, so let\u2019s just jump right into this conversation. And Travis, why don\u2019t we start with you? When did you realize you were running a business and not just creating content?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>TRAVIS KEYES<\/strong>: You know, it\u2019s a funny thing. We start out, we kind of make all this content we love doing. And then you get that first email, it\u2019s like, what are your rates? And you\u2019re like, oh my God, this is serious. And how do I how do I approach that? And what is a breakdown of rates and how do I, you know, and when you don\u2019t realize you have that full answer, you know, like, oh my God, this is a business and I have to, like, address it as such.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there\u2019s that pressure of, you know, when you first make, you know, if you are an ambassador something, and you\u2019re that pre-ambassadorship when you\u2019re just making it because you love the content. There\u2019s no pressure. But when, as soon as you go into that, like, suddenly you\u2019re under contract and you have to perform and there\u2019s analytics and all this kind of stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You realize, whoa, this is a business \u2014 And now the pressure of making content, it feels a lot stronger. So then you have to really understand what the business side of it is. And I think a lot of people, when they go into creating, it\u2019s because they want to tell a story and they want to connect with their audience, but they don\u2019t realize the repeatability of it, the sheer weight of what it means to do something and be a business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that is something that, is not really taught in, in the creator circles and shared, you know. I think it was very gate-keeped in numbers and contracts because people didn\u2019t want someone to underbid them overbid them and a lot of that. And so it was one of those things that I realized I have a lot to learn about answering an email if someone asks me, what are my rates?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong>: <\/strong>Gosh. And Dylan and Nicki, what about you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>DYLAN HUEY<\/strong>: Yeah, I would say. I mean, that\u2019s exactly spot on. I started off in the creator space when, I was 14, so I would say, I\u2019ve been an entrepreneur at an early age. No, but I come from Silicon Valley, and I think growing up in Silicon Valley, I always had some sort of entrepreneurial mindset.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, when I was 14, I loved the joy of getting all these PR packages. It felt like Christmas in my front door every single day in middle school and high school. You know, but I think, you know, especially with the creator economy not really being the creator economy back in 2016, it was more of a smaller function of marketing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, I was a 14-year-old outreaching to brands every single day, about 100 brands a day, telling them why they should pay a 14-year-old 5000, 2000 bucks at a time. You know, I think that that was always my ethos, being someone who came from a very tech-focused family, who grew up in Silicon Valley, now starting to become a creator.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you know, I love my career journey being an influencer, because the first week I started social media, I gained 30,000 followers. So there\u2019s no trigger, there\u2019s no ramp-up. There\u2019s a lot of learning on the go, which I thought was great. But, you know, I think very early on is when I, when I learned, kind of the ins and outs of the business world and being a founder and a CEO, really stemmed from content creation originally for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: And Nicki, what about you? When did you cross over that Rubicon?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>NICKI SUN<\/strong>: Yeah. So my background is professional, on-camera host, and it kind of transitioned into behind-the-scenes filmmaking really when I went to NAB Show. I was actually the MC for the Post Production stage in 2018, and actually due to not \u2014 due to seeing a lack of women in the space, I decided to launch my own, a tech channel called Tech Nicki Speaking, which is a play off of my name, \u201ctechnically speaking,\u201d and I launched a YouTube page where I was reviewing cameras, showing people how to do tutorials that go viral on TikTok, like the Lookalike Challenge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I realized my creations became a business when companies at NAB Show interacted with me so, you know, that I hit a different market and they would send me stuff. It would be like, how can we work with you? How can you, like, shoot a product tutorial about this? And that was me wanting to go behind the camera.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in doing so, it forced me to be in front of the camera because I was actually in front of the camera talking about how to do things behind the camera. So it\u2019s very meta in that way. But I realized that there\u2019s so many brands that had wanted to work with me, that this is a legitimate business, and I need to make sure that I have all my ducks in a row before I continue going forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I would say, really, 2018, 2019 was when I realized that I wasn\u2019t just creating to create anymore. It was also creating, and I have to have a business side, in mind as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: I\u2019ll tell you what, what a decade it\u2019s been as all three of you have just kind of been in this space and seen it explode for yourselves as we\u2019re sitting here with it, and let\u2019s go to Dylan for this one, how do you describe your business model today? Where does revenue actually come from?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>HUEY<\/strong>: Yeah, that\u2019s a great question. You know, I think as a creator, there\u2019s so many ways to monetize. And I\u2019ve very much been someone who\u2019s seen all the different ways that you can monetize, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think very early on, for me, it was solely focused on brand deals and then the standard monetization on TikTok and all the other platforms. But because I turned into more of a business-centric person, I say brand deals are great, but I honestly try to do zero brand deals. I don\u2019t want to flood my account and I post mainly on Snapchat now. I get 20 million views every day on Snapchat. And I don\u2019t want to flood my feed with branded content.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>On the flip side, what I do now is I\u2019ll work with a lot of creator economy and tech-focused brands and advise them and tell them and be that liaison between industry and the creators. I think that that\u2019s my superpower here, being someone who is very in the industry and as well a creator, and that, honestly, it pays way more than the Snapchat Mid Roll program, which is great. I love Snapchat. Don\u2019t get me kicked off of that Mid Roll program. But I make a lot of money, and that\u2019s how I grow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, you know, beyond that, my main company, REACH, which is a marketing agency and talent management company and venture fund, you know, I\u2019m spearheading and leading that and we have 40 employees. So I\u2019ve really turned my expertise in social media and creator economy to be able to monetize, help other creators monetize, help brands scale and grow, in a very unique and unprecedented way in this creator space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: So it\u2019s just really great to hear from you how you had to pivot as you went through this journey over the past few years. Travis, do you find that it\u2019s been it was similar for you? I\u2019m sure it\u2019s different pivots, but that you had to constantly reassess what you were doing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>KEYES<\/strong>: I did that every day, I think. I think we have to. You know, I didn\u2019t enter as a content creator, and it was something that I never, kind of\u2014it wasn\u2019t on my journey, what I expected. I started out in film and TV and working in production and movies and making films and wanting to do that. And then I found I just was disenchanted with the whole film industry and people, like, making their lives of how they knew other people. And their worth was set on like, \u201cOh, I know this person or I can get this done.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I kind of got out of that and distracted for a while and opened up bars and nightclubs in New York and Miami and Connecticut and was lost for a long time and just wasn\u2019t happy. And I found photography. And photography led me down to a happy place where I was, like, this is incredible, but now I want to tell a story.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And as in, early on my days, that was when the influencer boom, I think, kind of happened. And that got kind of annihilated because influencer was taking advantage of, you know, \u201cOh, I want free things\u201d and doing that. And then this whole thing kind of took\u2014then I think the birth of the content creator was born. And the content creator was someone that knew how to tell stories, knew multimedia from telling stories, whether it be photography, through podcasts, through video.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that storytelling was \u2014 earned trust between their audience and who they were kind of talking to. And that\u2019s what I fell in love with. It was about really kind of finding that space where we could connect with people. And that\u2019s when the content creator was born and the authenticity of what we do was starting to get valued and wasn\u2019t like, oh, bad mis-label, they\u2019re an influencer. No, there was a content creator. And I think anyone that wants to be, you know, successful nowadays has to be versed in being a content creator because you have to connect on so many different levels, with the brand, with the behind-the-scenes, with the audience. And if you\u2019re not doing that, you\u2019re kind of falling behind. And that\u2019s, I think, why this space right now is so important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: And Nicki, I want to bring you in on this kind of hear what your story was. But also, you know, as we sit here today, how do creators most underprice themselves and leave money on the table as they\u2019re working through their business models?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>KEYES<\/strong>: [Chuckles] You got a day?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>SUN<\/strong>: Yeah. So I \u2014 I know! I can only speak to what I\u2019ve experienced, but I would say when I was first starting, because, like Travis, I didn\u2019t start out as a content creator or influencer. I love how we both put \u201cinfluencer\u201d in quotes, because that\u2019s just not how I ever, like, defined myself. It would be like, OK, I realize there\u2019s a difference between charging a package versus charging a la carte, and sometimes as a beginning creator back then, I felt the need that I had to do everything like a YouTube video, 3 to 5 minute.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I had to add, you know, a plug. I had to do social media, vertical content. We got to do collaborations. But I realized I could either package all that up with a higher ticket price or also just charge more. So the biggest thing that I learned while doing this is, the biggest thing to me that creators also leave off the table is licensing fees, their collaboration. Because yes, for you to create the content to put on your page is going to be so much more, because you really are getting \u2014 giving them access to your trusted audience. You\u2019ve taken forever to build your audience. And your audience is going to know you, if you put something up that you don\u2019t really believe in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it really is a huge thing. Like Dylan said, like, I really, when it comes to brand partnerships, like, I really don\u2019t take a lot. Like, it has to really go with my flow or be a part of my brand. But yeah, licensing, if you create the video, that\u2019s great. But there\u2019s also months afterwards and being able to leave that video up for six months or a year or two years, charge for that, because this company is making money by running your ad with paid ads.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Not just organically, but you don\u2019t, as a creator, see the compensation for that. So you need to charge for them using your video beyond that. So I would say that\u2019s, that was a big thing for me learning, really real is, optimize the scope. Like if the price or the budget is not as high as you\u2019d like it to be, you can totally optimize your scope, like take off a video, just do like, \u201cOh, you just wanted a photo? Okay, cool.\u201d I don\u2019t have to do all these other things in order to do that. And, yeah, I would say just with licensing fee, just \u2014 advocate for yourself. Like no one knows, but you have to advocate for yourself. But those were the biggest things for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: We are always our biggest advocates. And as you were answering that, Nicki, Travis, I saw you just shaking your head a bunch. So I want you to chime in and also kind of talk about what brands most misunderstand about what they\u2019re actually paying for when they hire you or they hire a creator in general.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>KEYES<\/strong>: Yeah, I\u2019m glad you brought that up, because they both kind of go back into each other. And both, you know, Dylan and Nicki, you kind of focus in on key things that I had prepped as well. And when, Nicki, you were talking about things that, really, people undervalue themselves and don\u2019t look into that, licensing was number one for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that scope creep is a huge thing. I think if we don\u2019t have those\u2014and a lot of times we don\u2019t take that time or they don\u2019t give us the time for that pre-production and letting us say, what is the scope of this? What do you expect, what are the deliverables? And every time that they, you know, how many times we\u2019ve said, \u201cOh, you know, we\u2019ll do it for this price. And then suddenly, \u201cOh, can you just do another 30-second or can you do one revision or you can do this or can you?\u201d And then suddenly they hired you as a photographer, filmmaker and then they have you as a creative director and like, \u201cWhy aren\u2019t you coming up with the ideas for this one?\u201d \u201cWell, you didn\u2019t hire me for that, or you should have hired me for that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, there\u2019s all these things that kind of creep in: distribution rights and, you know, undervaluing usage is huge. You know, all those things are massive. But when you were going back to, you know, talking about, I think, what brands kind of misunderstand in that kind of whole circle, you know, they\u2019re paying for reach there. You know, that\u2019s what they think. They think they\u2019re paying for reach. When they hire you, they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, they have a great reach.\u201d But impressions are rented, trust is earned. And then what they\u2019re actually paying for is that trust transfer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And Dylan, one thing you said is like and Nicki, you reiterated, was you were not trying to put that much brand up, branding on your site. And that is because by doing that, we\u2019re devaluing the trust we\u2019ve earned. And the trust we\u2019ve earned is so valuable that that is what I think that a lot of these brands misunderstand is that earned trust. You may have a smaller viewership, but your engagement is higher and your trust is higher. That is what you\u2019re really kind of putting out there, you know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And beyond that, it\u2019s your production standards. It\u2019s your storytelling fluency. It\u2019s, you know, your consistency. All of that is what \u2014 so, I find that brands kind of misunderstand that the most.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>HUEY<\/strong><\/strong>: If I can add, I think that, you know, when I\u2019m talking to creators every single day now, I have a lot of creators who we manage who have millions and millions of followers, 5 million followers, 10 million followers, and they\u2019ll be, like, \u201cI\u2019ll do every single brand deal that\u2019s 500 bucks.\u201d You know? And I tell them, like, I can get you 10,000 brands hypothetically at 500 bucks, and it\u2019s great. But, you know, your audience doesn\u2019t want to see 10,000 brand deals. And, you know, it\u2019s an oversaturation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I tell creators to think of their own social media accounts kind of like it\u2019s a TV channel, right? If you were watching ESPN and basketball and every single 10 seconds was a commercial, would you watch that? No. I personally wouldn\u2019t, and I don\u2019t think anybody in the world would watch it, right? You have to have an even distribution, knowing your audience and knowing when the right time to place brands into, to really make sure that your followers believe you and trust you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because at the end of the day, if your fans and your followers stopped trusting you, then when you do a brand deal, when you do the next brand deal, who\u2019s going to actually buy into that brand? Who\u2019s going to believe it\u2019s an authentic brand deal? Who\u2019s going to, you know, every CPG and DTC and tech company, they will tell you maybe that brand awareness is a major factor of the campaign.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But at the end of the day, let\u2019s be honest, a CPG and D2C brand, it\u2019s sales. And for a tech company, it\u2019s downloads and MRR, right? And if you can\u2019t help them get that, well, you\u2019re not going to get a renewed contract, right? And the best thing that you could do is figure out how to get a long-term partnership with a renewed contract.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it\u2019s proving yourself out first. Right? It\u2019s making sure that they believe, that same company believe that your audience is the best audience to advocate for that company. And I found that to be really helpful, that comparison for creators would be like, \u201cOh my God, you\u2019re so right. We shouldn\u2019t be going for these $10,000 brand deals since we have 25 million followers. Let\u2019s go for the bigger brands that are long-term, that can pay us 400, 500, $600,000, but also make sense for our content and where we can build a really long-term series that this brand can be a part of after this first deal happens.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: And Nicki, I want to bring you back in on this because I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve got an opinion. But also I want to know, because we\u2019ve talked about a lot of metrics here in these answers. What are your success metrics? What matters the most to you as you\u2019re producing your content?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>SUN<\/strong>: Yeah, to me it\u2019s never been about and, you know, I could be wrong or whatever, but it\u2019s never been about the follower count or the view count. For me, the biggest things, because working in both corporate and non-corporate environments, you know that the marketing director doesn\u2019t get it when they\u2019re asking you to make things go viral. That\u2019s just not a thing. Like, \u201cMake things go viral.\u201d So I\u2019m like, okay, I like to turn that word into make things \u201cshareable.\u201d So for me, what makes you as a person share this piece of content with your friend, your mom, your colleague? Does it have those features of entertaining, inspiring, informational? That\u2019s where I usually guide clients that I work with into creating content.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So for me, one of my biggest metrics is the shareability of it. Like, how many times was it shared? Did you hear about it? But then outside of, like, data, for me, my measure, my metric of success has always been being top of mind when it comes to collaborating with certain brands. If I\u2019m, like, in the top 10, like, creators that they want to work with, that\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also, having a seat at the table. For me, metrics is\u2014having been in it, I just want to help, like, guide creators, you know, in a direction so they don\u2019t have to experience some of the struggles or challenges that I faced. So actually just being on the NAB Creator Council, that to me is a measure of success, is like, being \u2014 having a seat at the table to allow, to make changes and decisions that help other people walk in the door. That to me is like my current measure of success.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: That\u2019s really cool. And listen, we are so excited we have all three of you on the Council. And Travis, I do want to get you to really chime in. You know, one of the things I just picked up on with what Nicki said was, you know, it\u2019s not viral content. It\u2019s shareable content. People want to share content that they feel kind of part of the community, part of your community. Would you agree with that or no?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>KEYES<\/strong>: Oh, well, absolutely. I think, you know, I think so many people go in for, you know, initially when they start for the likes and think that if they\u2019re not getting all the likes, then, you know, trying to reach everybody in the world, you know, that they\u2019re not being successful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But, I mean, if you reach 1% and you build your tribe and you build your trust and you build your people, that is success. I mean, it\u2019s like going to Comic-Con or, you know, or, you know, Space Camp. Those are your people. You know, you\u2019re not going to \u2014 everybody\u2019s not going to love what you do, nor should they.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And if you\u2019re not adding some controversy and some back and forth and, I just produced my first film and the scope of the reviews are, \u201cWe love it and we hate it.\u201d And I think that\u2019s actually a really good measure of success is, like, if it was somewhere in the middle, like, or if they weren\u2019t talking about it, then, you know, not so great, you know. But if people love it, and they hate it, that\u2019s speaking, you know, I think that brings you to a point where, like, \u201cWow, they\u2019re talking about it.\u201d That\u2019s what we want. We want people to have those kind of, you know, reactions and connect with the people that we\u2019re trying to tell stories for.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, my stories aren\u2019t gonna, you know, connect with everybody, but if I find the right people that \u2014 There\u2019s nothing better when you sit in a room with, like, fellow creators like this and we just suddenly start talking and we you instantly we\u2019re like, \u201cOh my God, what about this? What about that?\u201d And you can\u2019t stop talking because you have so much in common and you\u2019re just kind of riffing off each other. I think that\u2019s, you need to find your people, and that\u2019s where it\u2019s all about.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: So, Dylan, at one point in our conversation, you kind of mentioned the Grammys a little bit. Obviously we are the National Association of Broadcasters. Want to get your take and then everybody around the panel. You know, when you look at broadcasters, when you look at those traditional networks, ABC, NBC, CBS, you know, what have creators learned from them, what do they aspire for, in terms of what they\u2019ve done? And then where do you think that those networks and those broadcasters can learn from creators themselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>HUEY<\/strong><\/strong>: Yeah, that\u2019s a great question. You know, I talk to a lot of people every single day and brands who know what working with traditional broadcasting looks like and CPMs and numbers and numerical, right? And the business world is very saturated with people who know radio and broadcasting very well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, at least for me, I think the first and foremost thing that I\u2019ve seen, a big juxtaposition between traditional broadcasting and also the creator space is just the fact of, like, age and demographic, right? We\u2019ve definitely pivoted into an environment and a society where people are watching TV, film, radio, all of that less and cable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And now switching to watching social media, YouTube, right? I think, you know, YouTube is most watched on the TV nowadays. Right? And I think that that\u2019s been the ethos of just seeing that change. Right? You have very legacy, 50-, 60-, 70-year-old guys on the broadcasting side. And that\u2019s juxtaposed by, if you go to famous birthdays and you look at famous birthdays, like top 20 creators, I think 60% of them are under 18, which is insane, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think it\u2019s showing how audience is really transforming. Right? I think there\u2019s a lot of things for creators to take away, right? At the end of the day, the goal for a lot of creators is to be very traditional. Digital is trying to be traditional. Traditional is trying to be digital, right? A lot of traditional companies like CBS and CNN, they\u2019re trying to figure out ways to crack influencers and to leverage influencers to help them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>They\u2019re also trying to figure out ways to go on the internet and focus outside of their cable and to rebrand themselves as a more digital-focused company. And that\u2019s exactly what creators have been able to do, is figuring out how to build long-term legacy audiences digitally on social media. I think the things that creators can take away, it\u2019s just the aspect\u2014and I think Travis talked about this, and, you know, a few other times we\u2019ve talked about kind of just a focus of creators wanting to turn themselves into brands, right? And I think that these traditional broadcasting companies have really been able to successfully build a long-term legacy empire. Right? And the goal for creators is to be a long-term legacy empire.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think, you know, when I first started on social media, my mother told me that creators only have a four-year lifespan. And I was like, OK, how do I causally reinvent myself? I don\u2019t know whether or not that\u2019s true, by the way. So don\u2019t quote that, but that\u2019s what my mom always told me. But I always try to figure out how can I continue to reinvent myself so that my audience, while my audience continues to mature and evolve, \u2019cause they stay with me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think that that\u2019s what legacy brands or legacy entertainment has been able to do successfully is have a really strong cult following long-term, where people are constantly watching them, and creators can learn from that. Because if you do, truly, if my mom is right with the four-year thing, then you constantly have to change your narrative, change who you are as a creator constantly to evolve with adjusting algorithms. And learning from traditional entertainment would be really helpful on that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: Well, I\u2019ll tell you what, Dylan, I would agree with your mom and the examples I would put out there are Madonna from the \u201980s into the \u201990s and the 2000s and Taylor Swift these days. So Travis, you got mentioned in that. I want you to kind of follow up on it and put it through the lens again of working with or thinking about broadcast media as you answer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>KEYES<\/strong>: You know, it\u2019s one of those things. It\u2019s like, why would a creator want to come to NAB and what does NAB want to do with creators? And I think, you know, it\u2019s like when \u2014 I\u2019ll mark myself, I think I\u2019m quite older than Nicki and both Dylan. But I grew up when, you know, there was not internet. Go figure. How does someone exist there? And there was like three channels on TV. You know, it\u2019s like we \u2014 whether you were young or old, you went to the same place for your information.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now there\u2019s \u2014 it\u2019s so segmented where, you know, the older generations are going still to broadcast TV, but the younger generations are not going to that. They\u2019re not using it as their \u2014 where they\u2019re getting their information or their entertainment. They\u2019re doing it through their phones. They\u2019re in, you know, YouTube, through Twitch. You know that, you know, that that few kids watch, you know, hours and hours of someone playing a game on Twitch is not \u2014 it\u2019s something that the older generation doesn\u2019t understand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so coming to NAB where you understand the legacy of, you know, traditional broadcasting and reaching that scalability to huge audiences to where content creators now have a voice and a direct line into a certain tapped group of people that they\u2019ve really entrusted and learn their trust and have those \u2014 and, you know, the broadcasters can\u2019t figure out how to get to those people. We both have something to learn from each other. And if we allow each other to learn from each other, that\u2019s where we get that hybrid of, you know, of really working together and understanding with the next generation of this whole media and connecting with people is going to look like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because it\u2019s not going to be one or the other, it\u2019s going to be something in between. And that\u2019s where, you know, these great meeting up of minds can really work off each other and really kind of, that\u2019s the most important thing. I hate using word \u201ccommunity,\u201d but it\u2019s that \u2014 because I don\u2019t want that to feel like anybody\u2019s not supposed to be in that community. Because we\u2019re all supposed to be there. We\u2019re all supposed to \u2014 so these creative circles need to come together and share with each other and help each other and build off each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: Well, yeah. And listen, when someone uses the term community, you can be part of multiple communities. And that\u2019s what bridges and brings those communities together and makes those communities kind of even larger just with different subsects.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I love that you said, you know, \u201chybrid.\u201d And Nicki, I want to bring you in on this, you know, in to work off of that. Because when you think about kind of, you know, creator content, sometimes that is, you know, that\u2019s not as linear as what broadcast does. And yet there\u2019s pluses and minuses to that on both sides. Correct?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>SUN<\/strong>: Yes, I agree with my colleagues here. No notes. I think starting out in broadcast journalism like over 10 years ago, that\u2019s what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a broadcast journalist, but at the same time I was like, I don\u2019t want to report on possible sad news all the time. So I really wanted to stick with the infotainment, like it\u2019s informational, but it\u2019s also entertaining.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I realized that after I graduated college, I don\u2019t think any three acronym legacy media was going to hire this punk kid right out of college. So I ended up just starting my own YouTube channel, and I did my own talk show where I interviewed a lot of those who, to me, I felt were underrepresented in media, particularly like indie musicians and artists in the Asian-American\/Native Hawaiian\/Pacific Islander community. So I really was able to build a community through that. And so I think now, having been to\u2014this would be my ninth NAB Show, I\u2019ve definitely experienced and seen the changes from broadcast level and balancing the intersection between legacy media and digital media, and I\u2019ve always tried to be there to help bridge what needs to be, like, connected.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But like Travis said, like, you can\u2019t have one or the other. It\u2019s like it\u2019s going to be a meeting of the middle. So it\u2019s how can we work together? How can we learn from those who have laid down the foundation but also learn from the new generation of storytellers who have really got it, like, they have a head start and they really know what they\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So finding that level of respect and that groundedness to come together to realize we can really actually learn something from each other. We are really doing two things, maybe two sides of the same coin, but we just got to get on the same level that at the end of the day, it really comes down to core storytelling. Regardless if you\u2019re in broadcast legacy media or even, influencer or a content creator like, how is your storytelling? How can we improve that from all ends? And I think that\u2019s the way forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: Storytelling and purpose. And that\u2019s what we do when we get together at NAB Show. And listen, I know at one point in time, you know, we\u2019ve talked a lot about everything on the business side and we\u2019ve talked about storytelling. We haven\u2019t really talked about the tech side. So next thing I want to do is jump into AI and kind of talk about the tools that you guys are using. And whether or not it\u2019s effective.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>HUEY<\/strong><\/strong>: I love AI, personally, and I think that that might be a hot take. I don\u2019t know about the rest of everyone on this on this podcast, but I love AI. Now I know where my strengths are and I know where my weaknesses are and I know where my limits are. Right? I\u2019m never gonna overuse AI. I cannot fully be replaced by AI. People watch my content because they want to see my personality. And it goes into this aspect that we just talked about: virality versus shareability. Right? At the end of the day, I could make a million viral videos, but if nobody recognizes me and watches me, what brand have I been able to build? Nothing. Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I do love a good viral video, right? And virality does equate to shareability. For me, like, my entire content workflow is optimized with AI and I think if you\u2019re not using AI, you\u2019re missing the mark of being able to be more productive. Now, am I going to use it to completely film my videos and to, you know, have an AI background and to replace my face with an avatar? No, not at all. That\u2019s\u2014my audience would hate that because they came to me and watched my content because it was me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, can I utilize it to help me edit a little bit faster, right? Or can I use it to help storyboard what I wanted to film and put it into tangible soundbite ideas just because I can\u2019t write that well? Yes. And that, I think, is what\u2019s great, right? When I\u2019m on meetings and I\u2019m brainstorming with my team, I can use AI to note-take. And after 15 meetings at the end of the day and being tired, I probably didn\u2019t remember what I said at 9 a.m., right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those are ways that AI really helps me as a creator, especially on the business side of things, right? Obviously, for me, I\u2019ve been able to optimize my workflow. And I think we had this meeting at one of the Creator Council meetings, at the end was, like, \u201cWhat\u2019s our, like, AI tech stack?\u201d And I was like, \u201cI use this for, you know, all of my text messages. And to schedule my meetings, I have an AI tool that I add to my emails and, you know, for sales, I have this tool. And then, you know, for anyone who wants to call me on the phone and I can\u2019t pick up, they can talk to an AI that knows everything about my business,\u201d and to be able to talk about that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, the business side is always really great, but the creativity aspect is something that a human needs to do that AI, at least for right now, and for me, in my opinion, would never be able to replace. It\u2019s always going to be\u2014 a human has to be the product. Because yes, AI avatars and AI creators are a thing. You know, and we\u2019ve seen an AI creator at Wimbledon and it\u2019s been great. But that\u2019s just a fad. I mean, it\u2019s trendy. Nobody can really relate to that. There\u2019s no authenticity. And how do you scale and grow that after, you know, having a little bit of a viral moment because it\u2019s something interesting, right? A person is really the spearhead of the brand. That\u2019s my opinion on the AI side.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: Dylan, I love it. There are a couple of pull quotes in that answer. I am sure we\u2019re going to be seeing those circulated as we run up to NAB Show. Guys, and I guess we\u2019ll go to Nicki for it, you know, a follow-up on that. Do you use then AI more so on the business side than on the creative side, because I think, you know, some people might not even think about doing that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>SUN<\/strong>: I would say when it comes to AI, I am cautiously optimistic. But like Dylan said, it\u2019s like, you know, you cannot replace humans. And I think that the whole reason of why I create is to have that shared human connection with my audience. But I will say, like, when it comes to AI, so much AI is already embedded into a lot of the tools that I already use, like DaVinci Resolve. When I\u2019m recording my podcast, that AI dialog, it helps me to really just take out all the hums and hisses. At the end of the episode, when it\u2019s an hour, I basically transcribe the whole thing, throw it into an AI tool, and then it shoots out a summary for me that I could utilize.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it\u2019s not \u2014 for me, it\u2019s not copy-paste. Again, it\u2019s like a nice way to brainstorm what, like, the conversation, what I thought it was, and then it could also challenge me to think, \u201cOh, well, it was more about this,\u201d and it helps me do more of my internal research of how I should be able to, I guess, put it out in the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I use AI in that way, and I have used AI tools too to help edit faster. But in using the AI, I realized I didn\u2019t like the AI. So, if anything, again, I\u2019m cautiously optimistic. But I would say I use AI, certain parts and creativity when it comes to editing programs, when I\u2019m editing videos, but it\u2019s never fully AI, like this is the final results. It\u2019s more like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s what you could do with AI.\u201d Well, this is what I can do as a human. So it\u2019s always that compare-contrast, and you take it with a grain of salt, in a way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: I love it: compare-contrast. Listen, guys, we are almost out of time. I got one last question. I\u2019m going to ask you to put your prognosticator hats on, if you will. Five years from now, what will the most successful creator businesses look like? Travis, let\u2019s start with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>KEYES<\/strong>: That\u2019s a good question. I think we\u2019re getting to a place where the creator becomes their own company and their own identity, their own person. Where that is creating small teams, production infrastructure. They really own their audience channels. They have a recurring revenue, you know, system, models in place, data literacy, clear IP ownership. I think the more literate they become as a business model and really understanding, becoming almost like their own mini TV stations and content creators.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s, I mean, you look at people that started out with the love of it, you know, Marquese Brownlee or Linus and stuff like that, that just started making videos that they love. And now they have these empires of studios and production teams and stuff like that. It\u2019s scalable. It\u2019s \u2014 we\u2019ve never lived in a point where, it\u2019s sort of the renaissance of creativity, where I like saying that, you know, where we used to make movies and it\u2019s, you have to bring in a helicopter to do a, you know, a huge aerial shot and have giant, you know, things that do, you know, these moving shots. That all fits in a backpack, you know? So there\u2019s never been greater storytelling now that those tools are accessible to everybody. And with that, the AI is kind of scary with that. But also at the same time, I\u2019ll bring in a Star Wars reference. You know, there\u2019s the Dark Side and then you can go to the light, you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So everything is a tool and it\u2019s how we use it. And I think that five years from now is going to hopefully see AI kind of go into the \u2014 right now, I think people are fearful that, saying, you know, AI, and I think a lot of people instantly think, \u201cOh, this whole thing was created with AI.\u201d And the scary thing is, a lot of us good content creators will throw out something like, \u201cOh, this was AI, and now we have to show the behind the scenes to show that no, it wasn\u2019t AI. We actually shot it.\u201d So we have to authenticate that we\u2019re actually doing something real and it\u2019s good and not AI, which it really, kind of, drives you mad.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think we\u2019ll kind of get to the process where people are using AI as tools to help, you know, be efficient. But also the badge, moniker of \u201cthis was not created with AI\u201d is going to be something that comes back around and be very wanted and authentic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: Yeah, I definitely would agree with that. And Dylan, I saw you shaking your head as well. Do you agree? And you know the most successful, how are they going to be in five years?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>HUEY<\/strong><\/strong>: Yeah, I think Travis is pretty spot on. I mean, I always have been saying this for the last few months. I think the next big creators are going to be the ones that own everything, verticalize in-house, right, and have everything oriented into their own company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, Travis named a few of those creators. But, you know, I want to spit three creators that I think are doing this very similar thing that are, are successful. Allen Chikin Chow, Dhar Mann and then MrBeast, right? Those are three creators who are very much the case studies of merging entertainment and creator.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think, you know, we\u2019ve seen digital and traditional very much contrast each other. And I think the future is going to be that very much synergetic, you know, of traditional and digital finding its footing into culture equally as much, right? I don\u2019t think that we should be calling a creator a creator, right? We should figure out how to turn these creators into celebrities as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, and it\u2019s funny, cuz I was talking to some of my friends and I was naming creators. I\u2019m like, do you think this is a creator? Or do you think this is a celebrity? And they were like creator, streamer, creator, right? And I\u2019m like, OK, how can we get that foot in the door to make these creators actually be seen as legitimate celebrities in the same way we see a Ryan Reynolds, a Ryan Gosling, etc. Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, I was, I was talking to my friends about the Grammy Awards, right? And why I don\u2019t think that Alex Warren would have had any chance to win, right? Because people think of him as a TikToker. And I\u2019m like, what can we do to prove that he\u2019s an actual viable music artist more than just a TikToker while he\u2019s getting 50 million streams right now?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that that\u2019s the direction that we\u2019re going to see continuing to transform the digital space into merging with very traditional entertainment, whether that be music, whether that be film and TV. But then as well, having these creators really think of themselves as a very business-oriented mindset, having a CEO rather than having a go get a manager at an outside company. How can they bring up, partnerships, brand partnerships in-house? How can they make sure that they have a very structured finance team and legal team and all of that, where it\u2019s all usually separated, right? It\u2019s all still the Wild West. You have, you know, all these different people and players that are outside agencies and how can you bring it into one where you have them part of your team for your team with you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: See, and that\u2019s building the business and that\u2019s, I guess, what we\u2019re kind of leaving people with as we wrap up. Nicki, I do want to give you one last chance to chime in, and I do want to say, hey, Dhar Mann was at NAB Show last year. And you guys are going to be at NAB Show this year, which is super exciting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>SUN<\/strong>: I know, we\u2019re so excited to have more creators or people who identify as creators, at NAB Show this year. I would just say, to add on to both Travis and Dylan, ownership for sure. I do think, personally, I don\u2019t know this hot take, but the year or the time of worshiping and idolizing celebrity is kind of gone for me. I think we could just see how, just, the world is responding to current things that are coming out right now that, yeah, like the people that you idolize before may not be the people that we should be idolizing, which is also why I\u2019ve always had this problem with the term \u201cinfluencer,\u201d of being, saying you\u2019re a self-proclaimed influencer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I would say with that, I think that\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to feel like you own your audience, not relying on one specific platform. There\u2019s other great places like, you know, Substack or, you know, being able to just build your own or having your own email list. I mean, that\u2019s still key in this day is like, if you can have access to someone\u2019s email, like they\u2019re trusting you with your email, I feel like that\u2019s, like, point one. Because you never know when a social media platform may not survive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I would say just being able to own your content across the board, having a team, having infrastructure and mini studios, but just operating, as, you know, a business. But that\u2019s also, if that\u2019s your M.O. at the end of the day, like, a successful creator business is where you start and where you want to go. Does that align with your vision? Because sometimes it could get totally taken out of context, and you wanted to just be a creator and create and not have to worry about all this stuff. That\u2019s an option too. So not every single creator has to build a studio. But at the end of the day, that if that is your M.O., that\u2019s what I think a successful business would look like to a creator who wants to go that route.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><strong>MIELY<\/strong><\/strong>: I think that is a great point for us to end on. You\u2019ve got to know your purpose. You follow your purpose, make your content and everything else kind of falls in place. Dylan, Nicki, Travis, thank you so much for this candid conversation. You guys really know what it means to operate and be a creator in the creator economy today. We\u2019re psyched to have you come out and see us when we are in Vegas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m Josh Miely. Thanks for listening to \u201cChanging Frequencies.\u201d Subscribe, share and join us next time as we continue spotlighting the people that are shaping what\u2019s next.<\/p>\n\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/section>\n\n<\/section><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:30px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n\t<\/div>\n\n<\/section>\n\n\n    <broadstreet-zone zone-id=\"174809\" class=\"center-align\"><\/broadstreet-zone>\n    <script>\n        document.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\", function() {\n            setTimeout(function() {\n                document.querySelectorAll(\"broadstreet-zone\").forEach(zone => {\n                    let childDiv = zone.querySelector(\"div\");\n                    if (childDiv && childDiv.innerHTML.trim() === \"\") {\n                        zone.style.display = \"none\"; \/\/ Hide the entire tag if the div is empty\n                    }\n                });\n            }, 1000); \/\/ Wait for ads to load before checking\n        });\n        if (window.broadstreet && broadstreet.watch) {\n            broadstreet.watch();\n        }\n    <\/script>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:40px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>NAB Show discusses how media companies are reshaping their streaming models.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":21,"featured_media":17800,"parent":0,"menu_order":6,"template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":true},"categories":[58,70,60,33],"show-type":[63],"show-year":[66],"class_list":["post-17796","article","type-article","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-artificial-intelligence","category-changing-frequencies","category-creator-economy","category-trends-topics","show-type-las-vegas","show-year-66"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Host Josh Miely sits down with Dylan Huey, Nicki Sun and Travis Keyes for a candid conversation about building a creator enterprise.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Host Josh Miely sits down with Dylan Huey, Nicki Sun and Travis Keyes for a candid conversation about building a creator enterprise.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"NAB Show\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-03-11T15:29:12+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1200\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"628\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"41 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/\",\"name\":\"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/03\\\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2026-03-06T20:46:02+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-03-11T15:29:12+00:00\",\"description\":\"Host Josh Miely sits down with Dylan Huey, Nicki Sun and Travis Keyes for a candid conversation about building a creator enterprise.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/03\\\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/03\\\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg\",\"width\":1200,\"height\":628},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/article\\\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/\",\"name\":\"NAB Show\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/www.nabshow.com\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2","description":"Host Josh Miely sits down with Dylan Huey, Nicki Sun and Travis Keyes for a candid conversation about building a creator enterprise.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2","og_description":"Host Josh Miely sits down with Dylan Huey, Nicki Sun and Travis Keyes for a candid conversation about building a creator enterprise.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/","og_site_name":"NAB Show","article_modified_time":"2026-03-11T15:29:12+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1200,"height":628,"url":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Est. reading time":"41 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/","url":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/","name":"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg","datePublished":"2026-03-06T20:46:02+00:00","dateModified":"2026-03-11T15:29:12+00:00","description":"Host Josh Miely sits down with Dylan Huey, Nicki Sun and Travis Keyes for a candid conversation about building a creator enterprise.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/changing_frequencies_feature-image_e2.jpg","width":1200,"height":628},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/article\/beyond-the-brand-deal-episode-2\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Beyond the Brand Deal | Episode 2"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/","name":"NAB Show","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/article\/17796","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/article"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/article"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/21"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/17800"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=17796"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=17796"},{"taxonomy":"show-type","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/show-type?post=17796"},{"taxonomy":"show-year","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nabshow.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/show-year?post=17796"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}